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| Which Aircraft achieved the 1st air to air kill in 1990-91 Iraq War? |
| A4 Skyhawk |
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12% |
[ 3 ] |
| F-15 Eagle |
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54% |
[ 13 ] |
| MiG-21 Fishbed |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| MiG-25 Foxbat |
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4% |
[ 1 ] |
| MiG-29 Fulcrum |
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8% |
[ 2 ] |
| Mirage F1 |
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16% |
[ 4 ] |
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| Total Votes : 24 |
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| DukeB-120th wrote: | | CAG Hotshot wrote: | | DukeB-120th wrote: | | CAG Hotshot wrote: | | DukeB-120th wrote: | | F-15 Eagle, because I built a model airplane kit for a Strike Eagle and I remember the literature on the bird mentioned that it was flown for sidewinder kills on migs while he was going after SCUD launchers. |
Yes, but did the F-15 obtain the very 1ST kill? That is the question!  |
The closest thing we have to an ace in the modern era is something like three ATA kills, so the odds aren't too bad  |
I dont see how that correlates... The Iraqis killed many Iranian aircraft in their 10 year long war. So their pilots did have alot of experience when they invaded kuwait and I never said the kill was by a US pilot... |
Yes, but I'm playing the numbers here:
-I don't think Iraqis killed too many US aircraft-
-I don't think Iraqis killed many if any kuwaiti jets in the air
-Factor in the relatively low number of ATA kills overall and one of the three F-15 ATA kills stands a pretty good chance to be the first!
Fuzzy logic? Maybe. Like you said, we'll have to wait and see.  |
Sound logic indeed! But when has logic ever played a part in my polls! 
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CAG Hotshot
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 Fri Jan 14 18:18:21 2011 |
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| going with the Eagle. |
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| Sat Jan 15 18:15:55 2011 |
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There is a strong possibility it could be an F-15 but not in the way you probably think...
CAG out..
_________________
CAG Hotshot
"FAF Shape Meister"
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| Sun Jan 16 6:00:02 2011 |
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Post subject: Poll
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CAG
Just doing my Wing job. 
It is time to post the answer to the poll?
I am working hard to make Lt. Commander before I get too old.
Regards,
Pappy
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Tally Ho! Pappy's In 
Official FAF Beta Tester
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| Tue Feb 22 18:04:31 2011 |
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Rank: Admin, Site Owner, Developer, Webmaster
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Post subject: Re: Poll
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| Pappy014 wrote: | CAG
Just doing my Wing job.
It is time to post the answer to the poll?
I am working hard to make Lt. Commander before I get too old.
Regards,
Pappy |
Ok Pappy,
I guess you are right, enough time has indeed gone by...
This is an interesting poll as I am sure you will agree once I lay out the facts involved...
In the morning of the first day of the Iraqi invasion into Kuwait in 1990 (invasion occurred at 05:00 on 2 August, 1990) there was actually no air to air combat. Iraqi Su-22 fighter bombers scored hits on Kuwaiti Mirage F.1CKs that were parked on hardstands, but no air to air kills were achieved by either side in the early morning on the first day of the conflict, with most Kuwaiti Mirage F.1CKs and Skyhawks scrambling into the southern reaches of Kuwait and then into Saudi Arabia...
These aircraft were to return to the battle later in the day scoring multiple kills on Iraqi helicopters flying over Kuwait...
| Quote: | | Kuwait claim as many as 23 kills against Iraqi helicopters, including 13 scored by Mirage F.1CK and three by A-4KU pilots. However, they neither specify the type of helicopters shot down or provide any other kind of reference that would enable a closer cross-examination. The IrAF speculated that some of KAF Mirages that landed in Saudi Arabia have returned back to attack dozens of IrAAC helicopters flying at low level over the Gulf, or that one of Royal Saudi Air Force F-15s might became involved. |
So, while it MAY have been true that an F-15 (Saudi) had made a kill on the first day of the Kuwait invasion, it was NOT the first achieved...
All air to air kills in the Kuwait invasion were made by the KAF against IrAF and IrAR helos...
| Quote: | In total, the KAF came away in a pretty good shape and only days later the exiled Kuwaiti government claimed that during the invasion a total of eight Mirages, three or four A-4KUs, five Gazelle helicopters (three shot down by Iraqis using manpads and AAA, and two lost on the ground), and three Super Pumas were lost in combat to mishaps and AAA fire, while no less but 80% of KAF assets - including six Hawk T.MK.64s, three Lockheed L-100-30s, and most of the helicopters - were evacuated to Saudi Arabia, where they and their crews were to be reorganized into a "Free Kuwait Air Force".
In total, the Kuwaitis claimed the KAF to have shot down no less but 37 Iraqi helicopters and two fighters in two days of battle, as well as numerous armoured vehicles. No less but 15 of these should have been shot down during the first morning of the fighting, while alone the Kuwaiti MIM-23B I-HAWKs could not have shot down 23 Iraqi aircraft and helicopters. However, except for names of nine KAF Mirage and A-4KU pilots that should have scored a total of 16 air-to-air kills, no other specific details about these claims were ever published, and their validation is therefore impossible. |
| Date | Aircraft | Unit | Aircrew | Weapon | Victim | Country
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | M.al-Dossari | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | M.al-Dossari | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | H.al-Mutairi | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | H.al-Mutairi | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | A.Suwailim | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | A.Suwaiilim | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | A.al-Anzi | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | A.al-Anzi | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | T.al-Taher | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | T.al-Taher | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | T.al-Taher | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | B.al-Jouiad | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | Mirage F.1CK | 18 or 61Sqn | B.al-Jouiad | R.550 | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | A-4KU | 9 or 25Sqn | Hassan al-Qattan | 20mm | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | A-4KU | 9 or 25Sqn | Ala’a al-Sayegh | 20mm | helicopter | IrAAC
| | 02Aug90 | A-4KU | 9 or 25Sqn | Adnan Abdul Rasool | 20mm | helicopter | IrAAC |
So the answer to the poll is the Mirage F.1CK pilots by KAF pilot M.al-Dossari who shot down an Iraqi helicopter with an R550 IR missile...
I bet not one of you expected the first kill to be by the Kuwaitis and not the Iraqis! 
So the 4 of you that voted for the Mirage F1 got it right, even if you did think it was an Iraqi Mirage F1 that achieved the kill, when in fact it was a KAF Mirage F1 instead!
_________________
CAG Hotshot
"FAF Shape Meister"
Forum Administrator
FAF/FA-2 Design team
TSH Member/Developer
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| Wed Feb 23 1:26:03 2011 |
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Out maneuvered once again, You're too tricky for me CAG!
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FAF/FA-2 Beta Tester
 VNFAWING.com Duke's Desk Column |
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| Tue Mar 22 20:45:58 2011 |
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| DukeB-120th wrote: | | Out maneuvered once again, You're too tricky for me CAG! |
Heh Heh... I try! 
_________________
CAG Hotshot
"FAF Shape Meister"
Forum Administrator
FAF/FA-2 Design team
TSH Member/Developer
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| Tue Mar 22 23:43:44 2011 |
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